Talk at the Collège La Source in Meudon – told by the pupils

April 2012

We usually report on this website every talk given in the schools that open their doors to us. For once, there will be no report of this talk at the Collège La Source in Meudon: instead, we hand over to those who experienced the encounter – the pupils.

On Friday, all the Year 12 classes met Andrée Poch Karsenti. It was really interesting, and I was glad to see that everyone felt involved in her story. This experience made me want even more to meet someone else, like Marceline Loridan Ivens or Francine Christophe. Daphné managed to contact an association that may enable us to meet people who were deported. Thanks to Diane and Daphné, the school was able to contact Charles and Arlette Testyler. Both of them were deported. They are also married. When they came, I found them charming because they loved each other, and because they seemed happy to be alive, even though they went through so much during the Second World War. Their stories were captivating, because we had never seen deportation from that angle before. What’s more, all the Year 12s were calm and listened to their stories.
In the end, this experience about the Shoah was really interesting. I learnt many things I had never even imagined.

Sarah Siboni

* * *

I think we were lucky to be able to hear these very moving testimonies. As the years go by there are fewer and fewer witnesses, and it is through them that history is passed on. The testimony of Mr and Mrs Testyler, as well as that of Mrs Poch Karsenti, overwhelmed me so much that I will never forget their faces. Their strength and their courage for life will remain engraved in my memory for ever.

Diane Dimur

* * *

Throughout the year I took part in a very unusual project. Through it I was able to meet three courageous people who shared part of their personal lives and their memories. Two messages stayed with me. The first was Mrs Testyler’s reading of the young girl’s poem, which moved me deeply. The second: we must never take the end of the Shoah for granted, because another genocide, in another form, could begin today or tomorrow.

Daphné Dimur

* * *

We are very happy to have heard the testimony of Mr and Mrs Testyler as well as that of Mrs Poch Karsenti, because it gave us a human side of the Shoah that we did not know. We had never before been able to listen to a deportee talk about his story and the hardship of life in the concentration camps. Thanks to this experience, I also learnt the stories of three people who were in two completely different places during the Second World War: the story of two French women and that of a Polish man.
I was very touched by the way this experience of the camps and of the hidden children was told, and I felt all the emotion in their words.
So I would like to thank them for giving us their time and allowing us to learn more about life during the Second World War.

Marc Le Bras-Juarez

* * *

The visit of Andrée Poch Karsenti, who told us about her childhood as a hidden child, touched me enormously! I found her testimony really sensitive! I felt indignant when she mentioned the inappropriate remarks of her classmates, but also sad when I learnt of her parents’ death… On the other hand, I was filled with joy when she mentioned being reunited with her brother!
I think the main message to remember was that not all French people were traitors or collaborators – some were also great defenders of the Jews!

The Testylers’ testimony was extremely touching and also very different from the first testimony we heard, since that was about a hidden child who had experienced neither internment nor deportation. The fact that Mrs Testyler, even as a child, was aware of what was happening must have changed her perception of events. What she told us about her mother was not only incredibly courageous, but also a perfect example of one of the subjects of our class presentation: peaceful Jewish resistance. But what I found most horrifying – although I don’t think such situations can be ranked – was Mr Testyler’s experience. Going through eight camps, including Auschwitz, in only three years must have been horrible and deeply scarring! How can a man endure so much pain? How can a man inflict so much suffering on another?
However, I thought the way they told us what happened to them let us leave on a note of hope!

We were very lucky to hear these testimonies because in a few years there will not be many people left who lived through these events! I would also like to stress the courage of these people during the war, but also during these talks, because it must have been very hard for them to plunge back into painful memories…

Marie Reynier

* * *

The Shoah is one of the subjects we study most at school, because it is one of the darkest pages of our history. However, the experience we had in the European Section was really interesting. We can truly call it an experience, because what we learnt goes beyond mere theoretical knowledge. Meeting Mr and Mrs Testyler allowed us to place the story of individuals (children, in this case) within the course of history (the history made of dates and politics). It seems to me very important to think about all these families, because only then can we really understand how tragic these events were. We are used to hearing numbers like 300,000 or 6,000,000. But if we do not take the time to think about what each of those zeros means, it makes no sense. The testimonies make us understand that in the great wall of history, each brick is a person who lived or is still living. I was particularly moved when Mrs Testyler told us that the hardest thing for her was the discrimination against Jews in public parks, because she could no longer play with her friends. “No dogs or Jews allowed” – the phrase still shocks me.

Samuel Verley

* * *

First, Andrée Poch Karsenti came to La Source and told us about her experience as a hidden child. At the beginning of her testimony, I felt sadness for her and her family. Later, I felt hatred towards those people, those French people who betrayed their country and their French brothers. Finally, I felt admiration for the people who protected these children at the risk of their lives.

During the testimony of Odette and Charles Testyler, I was impressed by their joy of living and of bearing witness, because apart from a few tears they were always smiling. What’s more, they made a point of telling us anecdotes – even in a context of horror, they always had a little story to bring back a smile.

Gaspard Doré

* * *

Today Mr and Mrs Testyler came to tell us how their lives unfolded during the Second World War. Their stories were very moving and several events shocked me, in particular daily life in the various camps, or the courage of Mrs Testyler’s mother in saving as many children as possible. As with Mrs Poch Karsenti’s testimony, these two testimonies taught me an enormous amount about daily life during the Second World War.

Guillaume Fronsacq

* * *

We are very happy to have heard testimonies from former deportees and a hidden child, which helped us understand how people of the time lived through the occupation by Nazi Germany, as well as the deportation of Jews and Gypsies. These testimonies brought us closer to the dark period of the Occupation. We were surprised to learn that despite the punishments imposed by the Germans on the Righteous, many Jewish children were helped by part of the population, mainly Catholic clergy and religious.

Gabriel Chevrot and Marius Benaitier

* * *

Today we had the chance to welcome a couple, Mr and Mrs Testyler, who were deported during the Second World War when they were still children. They came to La Source to share their incredible testimonies with us, which were very moving.
Mrs Testyler was deported with her mother and sister to Drancy (she paid a beautiful tribute to her mother), before becoming a hidden child. When she spoke of her experience at the Vel’ d’Hiv’, I had tears in my eyes. She spoke incredibly well, and despite all the ordeals she went through, she manages to keep a sense of humour. The poem she read was extraordinary. Her husband was deported to seven different camps! His testimony was also very touching, and he managed to “immerse” me in his life.

I was happy to hear these exceptional testimonies, which gave me a better idea of what life was like for a Jewish child during the Second World War. I am sure I will remember these moments all my life.

Noémie Farnier

* * *

When we heard the two testimonies of Mr and Mrs Testyler, the first thing I noticed was the strong bond between them, which I must say touched me a great deal from the start. Then, as they spoke, I came to understand many things I had not understood before. First of all, I found their courage admirable – in the face of what they lived through, but also in opening up like that and telling such a hard part of their lives in front of teenagers.
I admire these two brave people who had the courage first to live through such hard things, and then to share them in such a moving, beautiful and sometimes even joyful way.
During Andrée Poch Karsenti’s talk the emotions were different: of course I admired her courage, but above all I respected her strength in the situation she faced, which must have been an ordeal of unparalleled harshness for her.
Sharing with us her memories and her research, which are still so vague for her, is once again proof of a determination that I respect and greatly admire.

Mathilde Sonrier

* * *

After the visit of Mr and Mrs Testyler and their moving testimonies about their personal experience of the Second World War, I was particularly touched. I was first struck by the strength and determination of this couple, so close and so complementary. Their testimonies were in no way sad or self-pitying; on the contrary, thanks to their humour and evident joy of living, they gave us a fine lesson in courage and a moving message of hope. The respect I feel for them is immense.
When Mrs Poch-Karsenti visited us, I was very touched by her moving testimony. Since she was very young at the time of the war, the long reconstruction of her lost memory must have been painful and difficult for her. Yet the courage she showed in coming to share these fragments of memory with us earned my admiration and respect.

Héloïse Voisin

* * *

I was really touched by Mr and Mrs Testyler’s visit. I learnt a lot about life in the camps. The way they told their story was really touching and interesting. They managed to make the story “sweet” thanks to how they met and how they were reunited with their families. Everything was told in a way that made us feel involved and touched by the story without being too terrified by the horror of the camps or of the Vélodrome d’Hiver round-up. Their lives were hard, but they manage to tell us about them with funny anecdotes. I nearly cried several times during their testimony. And I really thank them for coming.
Mrs Poch-Karsenti also moved me a great deal with her testimony as a hidden child. I hope her research to recover the story of her childhood will succeed and that she will manage to piece her story together.

Bertille Marboutin

* * *

I really enjoyed meeting the Testyler couple. Not only were their stories interesting, but you could also feel the pleasure or joy they took in sharing them with us, like an inheritance. For me, what they told us was terrible, especially for the Polish man who worked in the camps for a large part of the war. On the other hand, the French woman was younger and remembered fewer things.
I was extremely impressed by their courage, both during the war and now, through their testimonies. I found them full of life despite their great age. I am very glad to have been in contact with Shoah survivors, because their number is naturally decreasing and their experiences may unfortunately disappear or be forgotten.
The story of the hidden children told by Mrs Poch-Karsenti was very interesting. She has already done a lot of research to find those who helped her in her childhood, and she is not giving up. It’s incredible. Mrs Poch-Karsenti wants to reconstruct her journey during the war. She shared it with us, and I thank her enormously for looking back on her experience. It is proof of great courage.

Félix Ernest

* * *

Today Mrs Poch Karsenti came to the school to tell us about her life as a hidden child and to answer our questions, so that we could better understand the situation of Jews during the war. What I felt when Mrs Poch Karsenti told us about her childhood was that not only was it hard for her to remember the details of her past life, but that part of her was stopping her from doing so. When we asked questions, you could feel how hard she was trying to remember, and you could sense her frustration. I think seeing in front of us the effect of the war on one individual’s childhood was not only an interesting experience; it was an important experience for understanding the catastrophic effects of the Second World War.

David Berrebi

* * *

When Andrée Poch Karsenti came to La Source to talk about her childhood, I was very touched: it must be hard (I think) to remember that period of constant hiding without parents to hold on to. I think it is very courageous (but essential). The Second World War separated too many families; too many childhoods were lost because of it.
I was very impressed by the testimonies of Odette and Charles Testyler. The life of Charles, so young when he was in the concentration camps, is incredible and so terrible. When he and his friend were beaten, his 7 transfers across Poland and Germany, the living conditions…
Odette’s story is also hard to listen to. When she spoke of her “imprisonment” in the Vélodrome d’Hiver, I hadn’t realised it was so atrocious – I couldn’t imagine it: people committing suicide, others surviving without water, toilets or food.
I feel hatred for the people who committed such horrors against their fellow human beings, whether German or French.

The visit to the Mémorial moved me a great deal, especially when we watched the testimonies of the deportees. When I saw the name of Samuel’s grandfather on the wall, I was really overwhelmed.
The visit to the Cité de la Muette in Drancy bothered me a little: people still live there; there is only one wagon, some commemorative plaques and a room that doesn’t fit the situation. That is why I didn’t really feel as much as I “wanted” to. Of course, finding myself in a room where, a few decades ago, people were starving while waiting in fear for their deportation, my heart sank.

I think this project on the Shoah was very interesting, because we must remember what was done and the lives of the people – both those who were in the camps and those who were hidden. All of it touched me deeply.

Louise de Palaminy

* * *

As part of our project on the Shoah, we had the chance to meet 3 witnesses of this event that shook French history. Their stories, all different, were overwhelming, and we were able to grasp the consequences of this mass destruction through the emotion they conveyed.
Mrs Karsenti had to hide when she was only a very young child in order to survive the massacre of the Jews. Mr Testyler survived an unimaginable number of camps and had the strength to fight for his survival. Finally, Mrs Testyler witnessed the dark French collaboration, and her personality and story are very moving for us Year 12 pupils, who are trying as best we can to understand the Nazis’ reasons and to trace the history of the survivors of this war. Thank you very much for coming and sharing your memories, even the least pleasant ones to keep in mind, but so useful today in helping humanity grow.

Léa Teissier